I want to bring in Gershon Baskin, former hostage negotiator and Middle East director at the international communities organization. He joins us now from Jerusalem. Thank you so much for being here with us. So as we wait for this second group of Israeli hostages to be released, uh, imagine, uh, you know, again, looking at these pictures, Hamas presumably wants this to go smoothly after the debacle of returning the wrong body. Uh, your take on what we’ve seen so far and what we’re expecting.
>> Well, this is the last release of living hostages in this first phase of the deal. And there will be another release next week of, um, bodies of other hostages. Hopefully, they will take the precautions to make sure that they are delivering the right bodies next time. Unlike what they did with the body of sir shiri bibas.
Um, I proposed in the name of families to the qataris and the Egyptians that an international forensic team be sent to gaza to avoid the kind of mistake that was made with shiri bibas. This is really important. Um, but the most important thing now is looking forward to the stage two of the deal, which is supposed to release the rest of the hostages and lead to the end of the war and an Israeli withdrawal from gaza. But the big question that’s in front of us is who’s going to control Gaza when this war is over? Because if Hamas remains there, the war will not end. Israel will not withdraw from Gaza, and maybe all the hostages won’t be returned. This is really right now in the hands of the international community, the Arab world. The Arab leaders have been meeting over the last day to discuss the United Arab position on putting together a plan for the reconstruction of gaza. Without the Hamas leadership there, it will go to the Arab league. And it’s really meant to be an alternative to the kind of ethnic cleansing plan that was presented by President Bush and President Trump. Sorry.
Yeah. That’s right. I mean, more immediately, in terms of phase two, I mean, there were two weeks late in starting to negotiate that, and we’ve heard from hamas that they’re willing, apparently, to release all of the hostages in one go. If Israel withdraws from Gaza, will prime minister Netanyahu go for that?
>> Yeah. It’s important to note that this is not a new Hamas position. Hamas has been saying this since last September, but the Israeli side has rejected it. On the refusal to end the war. As long as Hamas is in power, there is no clear statement from Hamas about who’s going to control Gaza afterwards. Although the Hamas leadership outside of Gaza seems to understand that as long as Hamas is in charge of Gaza, there won’t be a single dollar of reconstruction money that will enter gaza. So there is a dilemma here. The problem is that the young hamas fighters who have taken over gaza in the absence of political leadership there, and now we’re holding on to their guns, making these Hollywood production shows every week with the release of hostages, trying to convince the gaza public that they’re still in charge and no one should rise up against them, which won’t happen as long as there is no viable alternative there. So we’re really kind of in this dilemma. How do you convince Hamas that they need to clear the area in order for Gaza to be rebuilt in order for the more than 2 million homeless Gazans to get housing into an infrastructure to be rebuilt. While Hamas is feeling strong now, empowered by these weekly shows that they’ve done over the last six weeks.
Um, what about the role of the U.S. Here? I mean, one expert last hour told me essentially it just comes down to president trump. If he wants Netanyahu to take this to phase two, it will happen. If not, it’s dead. Is that too reductive?
No, I think that’s exactly the case. We saw this with phase one being done. President Trump, before he entered the oval office, three weeks before he told the Israeli prime minister, get this deal done before I enter the white house. And it was done. While the deal had been on the table since may of last year, presented by president Biden, nothing happened during that period. No real negotiations took place. But in the last three weeks prior to Trump entering the white house, Netanyahu got the message and it was done. The same thing remains the case now with president trump to put the pressure on Netanyahu and say, you have to end this war. We gotta get it done. It will be done. But the problem is that we have president trump who has presented this a. Fantasy plan of evacuating more than 2 million people from Gaza, where no country in the region or in the world is willing to take them. Essentially, the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the diminishing of the Palestinian right to self-determination. This is something which is unacceptable to most of the world, especially to the Arab world. Um, and yet there is no alternative yet on the table. And here comes the role of the Arab countries in the neighborhood to present a
coherent plan to President Trump. That’s an alternative to his ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Plan.
Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And just I want to highlight the shot that we’re seeing right now, which is really interesting. We’re seeing two very different crowds. If we could bring that split screen back up. One, uh, almost a celebratory crowd in Gaza, as we saw, uh, the fighters, heavily armed fighters parading past them. And then on the other split screen, hostage square in tel aviv, where those anxious, anxious faces are waiting for any sign of those hostages that were expecting to be released. All right, Gershon Baskin, thank you so much. I really appreciate your expertise on this.
