Gershon Baskin
HARLOW: New this morning, sources tell CNN that Qatar has brokered a deal between Israel, Hamas and Egypt, in coordination with the United States, to release all foreign nationals being held in Gaza, along with critically injured civilians. This deal, we should note, is separate from any hostage negotiations. Hamas claim that it will release some of these foreign nationals it’s currently holding as hostages in the coming days. We will see. They did not specify which nationalities or how many hostages they would release or exactly when.
Joining us now is Gershon Baskin. He helped negotiate the release of Israeli soldiers Gilad Shalit from Hamas captivity in 2011 after being held for five years and he was exchanged for more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners.
Thank you so much, Gershon, for being with us for your expertise.
When you think about what it took to get him out, to get Gilad Shalit out, I think it was 1,027 Palestinian prisoners, one of who went on to lead Hamas currently, the families, many of them, are calling on – of the hostages on Netanyahu to trade all of the Palestinian prisoners estimated to be about 6,000 in Israel for their loved ones. Is there any chance that happens?
GERSHON BASKIN, UNOFFICIAL ISRAELI NEGOTIATOR: There’s a chance that it could happen because the weight of the families of the hostages and their message to the Israeli public is gaining support within Israeli society. Three weeks ago no one was thinking about the hostages. They were all thinking about dismantling Hamas’ ability to govern and threaten Israel. And today, while I haven’t seen accurate polling on this, it — my impression is that more than half the society is backing the families of the hostages and saying that Israel has a moral responsibility to bring back all these hostages.
We’re talking about women and children, infants, elderly people, sick people, wounded people. This is something that Israel has a responsibility to bring home because Israel failed to protect them. The major function of any country is to provide defense and security for their citizens, and Israel failed these 240 people and has a responsibility to bring them home. With a great price and it’s a huge dilemma for the Israeli government.
MATTINGLY: You’ve said since this start that you’ve had contact with Hamas officials or Hamas contacts. When was the last time you spoke to them? Have you been given any insight into what an actual strategy is at this point?
BASKIN: Yes, they’ve gone on radio silence over the last three and a half days. I haven’t received any response from them. And I’ve been communicating with people in Gaza, in Beirut and in Doha, including some people who are members of the leadership. That might be an indication that things are at a very sensitive and intense stage of negotiation, but it also might be that they are irrelevant and have nothing to say about what’s being negotiated because, at the end of the day, the decisions are going to be taken in Hamas by the military wing of Hamas, and they’re located in tunnels deep underneath the Gaza Strip.
HARLOW: The release that we’re hearing that Qatar brokered of foreign nationals, not hostages, that is coming today, our reporting is at Rafah crossing, does that, Gershon, indicate anything to you about where Hamas’ mindset is vis-a-vis hostages, or do you view the two as completely separate?
BASKIN: They’re completely separate. We’re talking about Palestinian nationals who have second passports. There are a few thousand of them. It’s not a major exodus of Gaza of Palestinian people. But they are Palestinians who have French passports or U.S. passports or British passports or probably 30 or 40 different nations and they are nationals of other countries. Some of those countries have fought very hard to get the agreement of everyone to allow them to leave.
[06:45:05]
I think there’s been internal pressure on Hamas within Gaza to allow people to leave who have foreign passports. It has nothing to do with the hostages. And when Hamas says that they are thinking about releasing foreign national hostages, they are not talking about Israeli with duel passports, they’re talking about the Thai workers who they took, they’re talking about Napolitan (ph), Filipino caretakers who were taken along with Israeli hostages. For Hamas there’s no difference between an Israeli with a second passport and an Israeli with no other passport.
MATTINGLY: You noted that there is – this is kind of up to the military wing to some degree. People might not recognize that there is a political wing, there’s a military wing, they are located in different places. They are often in the midst of different discussions.
There’s also multiple different – multiple groups holding hostages, or at least more than one. Do you believe there’s a centralized place for Qatar officials, U.S. officials, Israeli officials to actually go to negotiate at this point?
BASKIN: I think it’s very difficult and it’s impossible to determine who’s really in charge and making the decisions at the end of the day. In Gaza there is little difference between the political wing and the military wing. There’s a great overlapping of them.
The military wing of Hamas could not have done what they did on October 7th without the agreement and knowledge with at least the most senior leaders of the political wing. (INAUDIBLE), the political leader of Gaza, was released in the Shalit deal in 2011 and there’s no question that he is part of the decision making process of the military wing. But as you said, apparently Islamic Jihad and PFLP and individuals are holding hostages as well and it’s not 100 percent clear that Hamas has control of all of the hostages.
MATTINGLY: Gershon Baskin, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
BASKIN: You’re very welcome.
