Gershon Baskin
Gershon Baskin shares his ideas regarding how the current proposal will empower Hamas to remain in Gaza, and remains in power. And Israel risks another October 7th. The responsibility lies with Netanyahu. He has never dealt with the Day After. Which is the only real problem: Who should give the keys to Gaza to? This is a war without strategy.
“Con un’intesa così, Hamas resta a Gaza, e resta al potere. E Israele rischia un altro 7 Ottobre. Ma la responsabilità è di Netanyahu. Non si è mai occupato del Day After. Che è l’unico, vero problema: a chi consegnare le chiavi di Gaza? Questa è una guerra senza strategia.
With such a deal, Hamas remains in Gaza, and remains in power. And we would risk another October 7th. But it’s Netanyahu’s fault. He has no plan whatsoever for the Day After. Which is the real issue: To whom to hand over Gaza’s keys? This is a war with no strategy. It made sense at the outset: but now it’s just revenge.
Gershon Baskin slams Netanyahu over everything but this deal: he wouldn’t sign. And he knows what he says. Because he is following the ceasefire talks closely from within, but above all, because he is the only Israeli who speaks with Hamas. Which is illegal. Literally. It is a crime. And it is what most complicates already complicated talks. But that’s how in 2011, alone, he got IDF Corporal Gilad Shalit released, in exchange for 1,027 prisoners – including Yahya Sinwar. And so, he holds firm and carries on. After October 7th his counterpart, Ghazi Hamad, the tunnel manager, the only Hamas member who speaks with an Israeli, went on TV to promise ten, a hundred, a thousand October 7th. Until the elimination of Israel. And it was tough. But in the end, Gershon Baskin was the first to call back. What alternative did I have?, he says.
“After all, we will only live here if we live together.”
What does mediating with Hamas look like?
Always the same. Israel waits. Then, when it gets a proposal, and it replies, it is Hamas that replies: but after a week. And at that point, Israel says it’s too late. That Hamas replied to a reply that is no longer valid. And it goes on and on like this. But in the end, Hamas never says anything new. It explains immediately what its goal is, what it wants, and that’s it. Also because for that goal, it would sacrifice everything and everyone. Like now. Hamas doesn’t care about Gaza. About the dead, the hunger. Nothing.
But what is its goal?
The end of the war.
And Israel’s?
The end of Hamas.
Perfect. And so, what do we do?
The problem is not in Gaza, it is in Ramallah. Hamas is strong because the Palestinian Authority is a disaster. Take any poll. The first choice is not Ismail Haniyeh, but Marwan Barghouti. For a Gaza without Hamas, you need a West Bank without Mahmoud Abbas. And this is clear to all of us. Only, no one works on it.
What is the most troublesome thing with Hamas?
Talking is easy, actually. Because in spite of all these dramas, this formal ban, so that every now and then you have to be on Skype, but off the screen, with an Egyptian nearby who tells you what Hamas says, and which you obviously hear very well, the truth is that Hamas seeks a relationship with Israel. Because it is well aware that peace must be reached with Israel, not with the Egyptians, or the Americans. This is and remains an Israeli-Palestinian conflict, even if it has to be resolved in a larger Arab context. I would say that the troublesome thing, if anything, is to understand who is in charge. To understand if you are talking to someone who really matters. Especially now that Yahya Sinwar is underground. No one has any clue about the way Hamas takes decisions.
How did your relationship with Hamas begin?
By chance. I have been an activist all my life, and one day, in Cairo, at a UN conference, I was approached by a professor from Gaza who had come because he had read that I was there, and he was curious: he had never met an Israeli. Sometimes, the problem is not reality, but imagination. You think something isn’t possible, and you don’t even try.
It was 2006. Shortly afterwards Gilad Shalit was captured.
And I called him. That’s how all started.
For that deal, you have been blamed for inspiring October 7th. Showing to Hamas that kidnapping pays back. That’s why today many Israelis oppose a ceasefire.
It’s a nonsense. Quite the contrary. The Shalit Swap was a missed opportunity. Hamas wanted more, it wanted a broader agreement, because there was the Arab Spring, and the focus was on Libya, on Syria, on Iraq. On ISIS. Gaza was forgotten.
Yahya Sinwar was ready to negotiate. But he got nothing, and gradually, he became more and more radical.
You are the only broker of the Shalit Swap still alive.
Let’s say that murdering all others didn’t boost mutual trust.
If you were the prime minister, what would be your first step?
To recognise the state of Palestine.
Wouldn’t that be a reward for Hamas?
Not At all. Extremists dream of a state from the river to the sea. Recognizing a Palestine along the 1967 borders would neutralize them. On both sides of the Wall.
Netanyahu, however, does not seem to listen to anyone.
Because the world didn’t understand October 7th. It was not a military operation: it was butchery. But we only talk about Gaza. And the result is that we only rely on ourselves. On the other hand, look at US campuses. Look at the protests. Pro- Palestinians versus pro-Israelis. You import and amplify the conflict, instead of addressing it.
But how to address it? With what power?
And what power did I have when I stepped in for Gilad Shalit? We all make a difference with the life we live. This is a war we are all involved in. There are only armed and unarmed.
Click here to read the original article in Italian
Originally Published by La Repubblica at
https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2024/05/10/news/lex_negoziatore_baskin_netanyahu_conduce_una_guerra_senza_strategia_con_unintesa_cosi_hamas_resta_al_potere-422894375/
