Gershon Baskin and Mahmoud Abbas
Gershon Baskin, an Israeli Jew, is one of the more recognizable names of the Middle East peace process. His dedication to creating a culture of peace and environmental awareness, along with his impeccable integrity, earned him the trust of leaders on all sides of the age-old conflict. In 2015, he even brought 30 Israeli Jews and Palestinians wounded in the conflict to meet with war-wounded Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats.
- Gershon Baskin, a Jew who moved to Israel 46 years ago, has dedicated his life to contributing to bringing peace between Israel and Palestinians. He has a Ph.D. in international affairs and has trained in negotiations. Among other, his efforts include initiating educational programs between Israeli and Palestinian schools from within the Israeli Ministry of Education; establishing and maintaining contacts with key Palestinian figures and conducting secret back channel political negotiations between the sides; founding and running various peace focused NGOs; organising more than 2000 workshops for professionals from both sides; advancing commercial scale renewable energy to Palestine and housing projects in Palestinian East Jerusalem and mixed cities. He has written several books and writes for Israeli newspapers in Hebrew and Palestinian newspapers in Arabic. In 2015, he brought 30 conflict wounded Israeli Jews and Palestinians to meet war wounded Serbs, Bosniacs and Croats. Gershon Baskin has been unrelenting in pursuing peace, he continues to do so to this day.
You were born in the United States. What made you move to Israel when you were 22 years old?
My move to Israel was a combination of push and pull. I was a member of the Zionist youth movement in high school. I spent a year in Israel after high school and before university. I felt at home there. Simultaneously, as many other young people, I felt alienated in the US, this was during the Vietnam war and the civil rights movement.
Can you describe how your view on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict developed, i.e. the recognition of both peoples to the right to liberation, dignity and a state on the contested land?
It wasn’t obvious at first. I spent an intensive year in Israel with a Zionist youth group in 1974-75. I lived in a kibbutz and spent time in Jerusalem. At some point, I realised that I hadn’t spoken to a single Arab, I did not know what they thought, who they were. I then read a lot about them and communicated with as many Arabs as possible. The result was that in 1975, I wrote an article published in a Jewish newspaper -The Jewish Radical from Berkeley California- calling for a Palestinian state.
Is there a way to get the majority of Israelis and Palestinians to think this way as well?
The majority of Israeli Jews and Palestinians do not think this way, they are even more apart now. Many red lines have been crossed on both sides. This is the worst of wars yet, it is a true catastrophe and has engendered deep and widespread trauma. We need to get out of this cycle of violence. Leaders on both sides have proven to be unworthy, they have done horrible things to their own people. We need new leadership.
You have had a variety of roles over the past 46 years in the peace-making process between Israel and Palestinians, can you describe the most meaningful one in terms of significance and success?
The most meaningful thing I have done is negotiate the release of Ghilad Schalit, an Israeli soldier captured by Hamas in 2006. He was released in 2011 in exchange of 1027 Palestinian detained by Israel. I had direct responsibility to ensure that an individual stayed alive, is not forgotten and eventually came back home.
Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa and Gershon Baskin
Another major contribution I made through IPCRI, which contributed to reaching the August 1993 Oslo Peace Accord, was in October 1992 when I organised a multi-day meeting between high ranking Palestinian and Israeli security officials who were in direct contact with respectively Yasser Arafat and Itzakh Rabin, to discuss a variety of sensitive security issues. Among them, the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from Palestinian territories, the terms of a Palestinian security force, the release of prisoners, the handling of illegal Jewish settlements on Palestinian land, could a Palestinian police be responsible for their safety if they refused to evacuate?
But maybe as important are the hundreds, thousands of individuals whom I’ve touched, whom I’ve influenced in their understanding and perspectives, bringing them to work for peace.
You have written that an emergence of leaders on both sides who begin speaking the language of peace is required. Do such potential leaders exist? If so, who are they? Why are they not speaking out? How will they emerge?
Yes, they do exist, on both sides, I could mention a few names but I will not as I do not think that would be helpful to them at this time. There are people out there who are critical, who are beginning to present a vision that will take us out of this cycle of violence, who are not corrupt, who have integrity. They do not stand out today because there is no room for them to stand out into. Once elections are held, these individuals will rise, they will present a vision that will inspire people to imagine a different reality. Then there are those who may be seeking the highest positions in government who may be eyeing the right moment to move forward, politicians know that timing is important, if it isn’t right, an opportunity may be lost. We are struggling on both sides of this conflict with the question of how to get rid of our respective leaders, but there is no clear answer at this stage. Now is the time to build movements on both sides, to put out ideas, to make people think, to inspire them, it is happening. Though it is more difficult on the Palestinian side due to lesser freedom of speech. But it is not easy on the Israeli side either because society is very divided, it has become common to accuse someone of being a traitor, there is a poison machine working overtime to defame people, their names, their families, their beliefs. If new leaders emerge on just one side speaking the language of true and just peace, that will instigate the other side to move in that same direction.
You have stated that the mighty army of Israel cannot destroy the idea of Hamas nor can it destroy the yearning of the Palestinian people for freedom, independence and dignity. It seems that such insight has not crossed Netaniyahu’s mind nor that of many others in Israel. Is this a lack of judgement, a deliberate will to ignore or something else?
It is a combination. There is denial of reality. Some people in Israel choose to imagine a different reality, they can look at 7 million other people living between the river and the sea, but claim that these people are not a nation. They are blinded by their shortsighted ideology. As for Netanyahu, it is a bit more complex, he is not stupid, he knows he bears responsibility for what happened on October 7th and for what led to it, he needs to keep this war going for his political survival. Then there are those who have been living with the myth that the only language Arab neighbors understand is the language of force, when in fact it is Israel who is the one who understands only the language of force. The reasoning is that if you apply force and it hasn’t worked, use more force. But the longer Israel remains in Gaza and the more force it uses, the more potential recruits for Hamas, the more difficult it is to get rid of it, force begets force, more people killed, more destroyed lives, more desire for revenge, more wounded souls. We must voice our opposition to this cycle, and feel remorse. We have to say we are sorry.
Regarding the day after, there is some consensus that Hamas must disarm and relinquish governing power? In such a scenario, what would be Hamas’ alternative? How much support is it likely to still have among Palestinians?
In Gaza, Hamas is loosing support, there are indications that Gazans are now blaming and are angry against Hamas, some would even use force against it if they could. If Israel withdrew from Gaza, there would be a massive opposition to Hamas, less in the West Bank because they haven’t suffered the same excessive consequences of this war. At the same time, considering the excesses of the war Israel is waging with disregard to civilian life, displacing almost the entire population of two million rendering them homeless, and massively destroying civilian infrastructure, Israelis are justifiably hated. Hamas and Israel are responsible for the pain and trauma Palestinians are currently enduring.
Hamas has to be a Palestinian, not an Israeli problem, it is they and their Arab neighbors that have to come up with an alternative, an interim government that will be acceptable to the Palestinian people, the region, Israel, the US. Not a single dollar for reconstruction will enter Gaza if there isn’t an acceptable form of government. An Arab peacekeeping force could disarm Hamas and integrate its fighting members into a credible Palestinian security force, it is not always about ideology but about survival, if you pay them more than Hamas is today, it would work.
You’ve just mentioned a peacekeeping force in Gaza at the end of the war, what type of force would this be and how likely is it to happen?
A multinational peacekeeping force would allow Israel to withdraw from Gaza should such a force have a clear mandate that would include not only protecting Palestinians, but also protecting Israel from Palestinian attacks, as well as disarming Hamas. The force would likely not be under the UN aegis because Israel distrusts the UN, but it could be drawn from the Arab League, or even not necessarily from an existing international institution, as is currently the case in the Sinai, but it would be best if it were Arab led. Israel would probably accept an Arab force comprising countries with which it has diplomatic relations, Egypt, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Morocco and Bahrain. It is crucial that the Saudis also play a big role in post-war Gaza. However, such a force must be invited by the Palestinians to avoid it being considered as another form of occupation. The likelihood of this happening is high as it will give Israel a credible mechanism to withdraw from and not re-enter Gaza. Israel should not want to repeat an 18 year war and occupation in Lebanon with more than 1000 dead Israeli soldiers.
Are you supportive of the ICJ considering a case against Israel for violating international humanitarian law and the ICC’s prosecutor to request arrest warrants against Israel’s Prime Minister, B. Netaniyahu and Y. Gallant, its Defense Minister, as well as the three top Hamas leaders, of which two have been assassinated by Israel?
Yes, I am supportive of both these legal initiatives. The world needs and must abide by international acceptable rules of conduct. Israel has crossed so many red lines with total impunity. The outcome is, among other, 56 years of occupation. This has to stop. As for the way it is waging the current war and its leaders’ responsibility for it, they can make their case in the courts. While Hamas is not a country, arrest warrants can still be issued against its leaders.
You are also an environmentalist: what is to be done with the huge amount of physical infrastructure debris in Gaza? Do you foresee building a recycling plant and reusing the material to rebuild?
I have been talking with experts in the field. Some types of polymers can be added to the rubble during the recycling process. This would make the recycled building material even more solid than the initial material. Indeed, there is no need and it would not be necessary to rebuild with completely new material. A major problem are the destroyed aquafers in Gaza. Desalination plants and new sewage systems need to be build. Reconstruction of Gaza should be geared toward renewable energy such as solar panels on rooftops. There may also be the possibility to lease part of the Sinai to create a significant solar energy plant.
Should it have indeed been Hezbollah, Hezbollah most likely missed its target when its rocket killed 12 children in a football field in a Druze village in the Golan Heights. Israel conquered the Syrian Golan Heights in 1967 and unilaterally annexed the territory in 1981 against all UN Security Council resolutions. Few media mention this. As part of a wider sustainable peace in the Middle East, should Israel return this ceased land to Syria, regardless of who is in power in Damascus?
The Druze people in the Golan Heights should be asked what they want, possibly through a referendum. It should be noted that as a result of the 1967 Six Day War during which Israel conquered the Golan Heights, some 150,000 of its inhabitants fled to Syria. Israel and Syria have not made peace since 1948. The current Syrian regime is not legitimate which is why the return of the Golan Heights, which should be considered occupied territory, to Syria at this time should be considered carefully.
So what are the chances that this war will be the last one, that a new strategy on all sides will come out of it?
This must be the last one. Ten months of horrific violence, tragedy and suffering. The international community must be much firmer with both Israel and Hamas. The negotiators, the USA, Egypt and Qatar must place ultimatums on both parties to force an agreement, have enough sticks to seriously penalise, but also plenty of carrots to offer for making peace.
click here to read the original article in Novi Magazine in Serbian (pages 38-40) (Serbian version)
click here to read the original article in Novi Magazine (pages 38-40) (PDF version)
click here to read the original article in Novi Magazine (pages 38-40) (English version)
